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New brakes!

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#21
Yes, I know that. I was just surprised that after the bed in procedure they barely looked touched. I’ve driven cars that have a great bias setup and it feels like the back end squats down when you hit the brakes. The stinger is good, but not great in brake bias
Are you still using the super soft OEM rear pads?

If so, it kinda makes sense. Higher friction from the aftermarket front pads would change the bias would it not?
 
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CKeeler

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Thread Starter #22
Are you still using the super soft OEM rear pads?

If so, it kinda makes sense. Higher friction from the aftermarket front pads would change the bias would it not?
That would be correct. Since there are no rear pad options I know of
 

Thakid22

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#23
Yes, I know that. I was just surprised that after the bed in procedure they barely looked touched. I’ve driven cars that have a great bias setup and it feels like the back end squats down when you hit the brakes. The stinger is good, but not great in brake bias
You are right, but for different reasons than you think.
The Stinger does seem to run a bit more front bias in stock form.
I came to this conclusion because the front ABS would always kick in first during hard braking.

The Brembo Ceramic OEM pads are rated FG front and FG rear.
They have good bite cold and great bite whilst hot.

I switched my rear Brembo pads to OEM Semimetallic G70/Euro Stinger pads.
These are rated GG. They have excellent cold and hot.
They grip substantially enough that I can just barely perceive a bit of ABS pulse in the rear during semi hard braking. This is how my BMW brake systems were setup. The grippier rear pads have moved brake bias rearward enough to where the front and rear lock up (if there were no ABS) at the same time. During low speed high effort stops, the rears try to skid first.

Additionally, overall braking is stronger with this setup.

Now about those back ends that squat...
Brake bias does play a part here. But the main factor is suspension design.
The behavior of the rear depends on how much anti-lift geometry is designed into the rear suspension. Cars with high amounts of anti-lift will pull the back end of the car down when the rear brakes are applied. Cars with low amounts of anti dive will allow the rear of the car to raise up during (hard braking).

The Stinger just doesn’t have enough anti-lift geometry out back to pull the rear end down during braking. That being said, it has some, because the rear end doesn’t raise all that much during stops. As a matter of fact, if you apply the parking brake at driveway speeds, you’ll find that using only the rear brake, the back still doesn’t squat a useful amount. Cars with high anti-lift will squat severely in the rear when only the parking brake is used to stop.

Like you, I love cars that pull the rear down during braking. It makes the car feel more stable and level during those events. In my mind, this effect feels very “premium” especially during stop and go driving in the city.

I hope Kia addresses this in the next generation Stinger. It’s a glaring omission now that even Camry, Accord, Optima, Malibu, Sentra, etc., have generous amounts of anti-lift.
The Stingers braking action, makes me feel like the suspension got sent to market without being completely refined/finished. This is most evident at slow speeds (think pulling into a garage or parking spot), where the car will rock back and forth (front/back) several times in little small relatively undamped movements. Most people won’t notice it, but it’s annoying if your previous vehicle had a completely or near flat braking experiences. Granted, that motion is very small, but it shouldn’t be there, especially given that the Stinger also brakes very flatly.


For those who want to know what high anti-lift looks like, watch how the 3series rear body behaves during max braking starting and particularly how the motion is contained after the stop @ 2:08 in this video...
3 series stop

The Sentra at 3:23..
Sentra stop
 

Thakid22

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#24
One more thing about Springer brakes...
With the stock pads being so grippy, it may prove difficult to find replacements that out perform them.
The stock FG rating is very good, friction coefficient wise. Many so called “upgrade” pads have lesser friction capabilities. The only pads I found with higher friction ratings are the Euro Brembo Stinger pads, GG.
Boy are these things dusty, but I love the added grip they provide.
One days driving coat the wheels blackish.

FYI, a pads brake grade is stamped on the back of the pads and can often be seen in online product photos. It’ll look something like EE, EF, FF, FG, GG.
GG is the most performance oriented. There is an H rated pad, but that seems just for motorcycles right now.
 
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CKeeler

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Thread Starter #25
Thanks for you replies @Thakid22
My exact sentiments on the Stinger brakes. I’ll look into getting the euro spec pads for the rear or maybe just wait for Stoptech pads to become available
 
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#26
FWIW, rear end squat is a double sided sword. It's actually best if the rear stays right where it is. Squat is better than lift though. And as said, it really depends on how the rear suspension is designed. A car with too much squat will cause the rear tires to be lively while the suspension is unloading, which you really don't want while accelerating.

Also note that this only applies to RWD cars because there it's the rear suspension getting loaded and reacting. FWD cars will always squat (or try to, depending on spring rates and whatnot) because the front wheels are loading and almost always try to pull the nose of the car up.
 

Thakid22

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#27
FWIW, rear end squat is a double sided sword. It's actually best if the rear stays right where it is. Squat is better than lift though. And as said, it really depends on how the rear suspension is designed. A car with too much squat will cause the rear tires to be lively while the suspension is unloading, which you really don't want while accelerating.

Also note that this only applies to RWD cars because there it's the rear suspension getting loaded and reacting. FWD cars will always squat (or try to, depending on spring rates and whatnot) because the front wheels are loading and almost always try to pull the nose of the car up.
Here, we are talking about squat (more technically, rear antilift) induced by braking.
What you said is true of squat induced by acceleration.
The benefits of anti-lift at the rear are numerous...
It allows for better loading of the contact patches during braking. In other words weight distribution front to rear is more balanced. With more weight remaining on the rear wheels, the rear brakes can contribute more to the braking. This removes stress from the overworked fronts. Stopping distances drop. Brake induced understeer is minimized. The body of the car also stays flatter during braking with this type of geometry. Solidity/Stability during hard braking would be increased too, provided that you don’t encounter excess rear ABS lockup.

Anti-lift is a good thing. You can go too far with it and effect ride compliance during hard braking, but the Stingers suspension design has plenty of room to go +/- here.


Even in the case of acceleration induced squat, there is plenty of room to add or remove squat depending on what your goals are. This isn’t a one setting is best type of thing. That being said, the Stinger in stock form has relatively little rear suspension squat under acceleration.
 

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