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How to permanently disable Auto Start/Stop

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#1
Here's how I disabled mine

Alright, so the quick and dirty TL;DR answer for those of you who can't take another auto stop and just want to run out to your car and do this now (and it will take you 5 seconds):

Jam something in the button to keep it pushed down.
A guitar pick. A folded up receipt (that's mine), a bread clip...something thin and small that you can fill the gap with when you push the button down.

--DONE--


Now, for the longer "Is this idiot for real?" answer:

Yes, I'm for real. OBVIOUSLY, I'm not responsible for anything you do to your car, and you do this at your own risk, but just in case it SOUNDS like I'm just a ham-fisted idiot who thinks like a monkey and decided to "DUUUUUUH JUST JAM SOMETHING IN THURRRRR...." no, not exactly. Let me explain...

I'm an electronics engineering hobbyist, among many other things. I had originally wanted to tackle this project as an Arduino project, and eventually just program a chip and make a tiny board once I got the circuit down to the bare essentials. My idea for that project was to make a piggyback circuit that the wiring harness for that button would plug into. The circuit would read the state of the button light. If it was off, it would send a momentary high signal and wait until the light came on. The idea of this circuit was that it would ABSOLUTELY not cause any damage or do anything irreversible, and it would completely retain normal operation of the button. But it would essentially be like hiring an assistant to watch that light and always make sure it was disabled when you start your car.

One reason for the complexity, I thought, was because as you may have noticed, sometimes the system is actually disabled for a while when you start up. Colder mornings, I guess? I live in Florida, so we don't have many of those. But occasionally, I have thought to disable it and looked down, and it was already lit (disabled). But then it would turn off after a couple miles, and sometimes I'd remember and turn it off, and sometimes I would not, and my car would cut off. (I really hate this).

But the more I thought about it, the more I realized, there's already a circuit/program doing EXACTLY this with this button. Why double up the complexity? As a project, sure, it would be fun. But really, I just want the thing to turn off and stay off. I read many posts and watched many videos about how other car owners have found hacks to permanently disable theirs, and I found that other Kia cars have been disabled by simply jumpering the button wires to always be "pressed." The proponents of this method explained that in the technical manuals and schematics for their Kias, it seemed pretty cut and dry that a closed state on that switch would always put the program in "disabled" state. Makes sense to me. Basically, the entire program that controls the feature is a thing that says "enable the auto system UNLESS any of these things are happening..." and it listens for logic signals that are defined in the program. That button being depressed is one of those states.
That's where my testing started. I started simple: Tried holding down the button WHILE starting the car. Every time, the car would start and the light would come on in a fraction of a second. Definitely the desired result.


"Yeah, but it can't be good for a button to stay pressed. It's gonna burn something out."

I seriously doubt it. You have to understand, that type of button, a momentary button, is just like other control buttons in your car. Menu buttons, navigation, fan control, etc. They're not hard switches that have 12 volts running through them. It's not like the power for cruise control is running up to your button on the steering wheel, and when you press the button, it closes the circuit and powers your cruise control system with 12v. No, no, no... it's much more like all these buttons are like keys on the keyboard for your computer. They're sending super low-power, no-amp logic level signals. Do you think you would burn something up by holding down a key on your keyboard? No. You might tyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyype weird, but it will never damage anything.
So, considering the car is in warranty and this is a really simple, cheap part, and I'm a bit of a tinkerer anyway, I decided to throw caution to the wind, trust my knowledge, and jam a receipt in the button to test it for a few days. I start my car up probably ~6 times on an average weekday. Maybe more on Saturdays...So, I have at least 25-30 starts, and so far, the system has never been enabled. I like those odds.



"OK, I trust you, stranger, but I don't want a folded up receipt jammed in my button. This car is my temple."

I hear you. I have never left anything in the car when I get out. I rub it with microfibers every chance I get, I only rinse with deionized water, I keep a spray detailer in my car just in case a bird poops on it. Trust me, the receipt sticking out of the switch isn't my permanent solution. That's my test. So...next steps?
I want to pull the switch out and see about replacing it with a latching button. I know that the little cluster that control is in is easy to pop out of the console, which itself is easy to pop out of the car. If you watch the "Sintger GT and Me" video of replacing the console with the door cup holder, you can see very well how this little module is a simple bolt-in box with a couple of wiring harnesses. I want to get a better look at it and see if the actual button switch inside is reasonably accessible. If it is, it's most likely a surface-mount that can be desoldered and replaced with a same-dimensions LATCHING type pushbutton instead of a momentary, as it is now. For those who don't know exactly what I mean, think of a clicking ball point pen. Push it once, the pen stays out. Push it again, it retracts. That's a latching switch. I would REALLY like to turn this switch to a latching type so I can push it once and disable the system for as long as I don't change it. Now, that MAY or MAY NOT work. Some testing is needed for that as well, if the switch is even accessible. The simplest solution would be to pull the console, figure out which wires are responsible, and jumper them. Only thing is, I don't want to lose the ABILITY to control the system. I just want to be able to set it to off and leave it that way.
One way I've thought of to semi-permanently but easily-reversibly jumper the system would be to run two wires to an empty location on the fuse panel and fuse it. As long as the fuse is in, it's disabled. Time to sell the car or whatever, and want to reset the button to its factory operation? Pull the fuse.

Anyway. If nothing else, I hope maybe this has been food for thought for others like me who want to come up with an elegant solution to this. I'm not saying a folded up receipt jamming a switch is elegant. But my car doesn't turn itself off anymore if I forget to push a button. And that's elegant enough for me until I figure something else out.
 
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Thread Starter #2
So elegant...


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
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#4
I bet someone can 3D print a wedge for the button and make some money selling it lol.
 
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#5
I love how well thought out your post is [MENTION=911]DesignDawg[/MENTION].

Have you had a chance to look under the console to see if you can bypass the switch to close the circuit?
 
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#6
Should be able to jumper the two signal wires on the switch connector. That's what I did on my F150 to disable the Auto Stop/Start.
 
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Thread Starter #7
I love how well thought out your post is [MENTION=911]DesignDawg[/MENTION].

Have you had a chance to look under the console to see if you can bypass the switch to close the circuit?
I haven't yet. Maybe today if the bad weather doesn't catch me first.
There's zero question I'd be able to jumper it. I just want it to be a little more flexible than "off forever." --also because, just because I haven't had a single issue since Wednesday (30 or so drives) doesn't mean I've driven the car in every possible case or condition. A sample size of 1 in testing this does not a bulletproof fix make.
I'm super happy with the results so far, but that's about all I can claim. I'm still open to someone who knows more than me (not about driving ) coming in telling me this shouldn't be done.
But until that happens, I'm gonna keep pursuing the cleanest solution here.

If and when I do pull it out, though, I'll definitely take pics and post my findings!

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VegasStinger

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#8
A jumper connected to a toggle switch would be a perfect solution. Great job discovering this hack [MENTION=911]DesignDawg[/MENTION]
 
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Thread Starter #9
A jumper connected to a toggle switch would be a perfect solution. Great job discovering this hack [MENTION=911]DesignDawg[/MENTION]
Necessity is the mother of invention!
And yeah, the toggle switch jumper wire thing is the thought behind my fused link solution...I just don't want to have to mount a switch somewhere. So I was thinking of using a fuse that way. Certainly not as flexible, though.

Hmm...I have a GT1, so I think I have a couple of blank buttons over by the gas door button? Perhaps something could go there.

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Thread Starter #10
Also, I found from another forum, some images of a stinger memory module that supposedly retains ISG, auto hold, as possibly seat warmer states in memory?
There was no information there about where it was found, but I reverse Google image searched it and found http://delta75.tistory.com/m/1642

Site is in Korean, and it doesn't really look like it's an order page, but somebody mentioned something about $50. That's a little much for me, I think, but it does give pinouts for the switches! So that's helpful for jumper testing.
Maybe someone will reach out and order a batch of these things or something? Lots of people seem interested.

As for me... At $50, I think I'll stick to my replace a button with a latching button idea.

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#11
Subscribed for updates
 
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#12
[MENTION=911]DesignDawg[/MENTION] based on example 106 at the very bottom. Would adding a jumper from Pin 17 to Pin 28 work?
 
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Thread Starter #13
[MENTION=911]DesignDawg[/MENTION] based on example 106 at the very bottom. Would adding a jumper from Pin 17 to Pin 28 work?
I'd be very very hesitant to say yes to this, because, having not pulled the thing out and looked at anything yet, I don't think that these wires are going to be directly connected to any kind of switching. There's likely going to be a circuit board with resistors and such, and we don't really know what the other pins in this connector are. The smartest thing to do here is to look at the board itself and figure out exactly what that switches doing in relation to these pins. You don't want to be feeding 12 volts into any piin to test on a low voltage circuit like this. Transistors and other types of components can be very very sensitive. What's safe about keeping the button held down is that the button being pushed is already a known safe state for this circuit.
And one of the first things u did when I tested this was to see if there was any heat being generated at all by holding the button down. I haven't perceived any.
If 12v was directly involved in the switching of this, there would also likely be a high value resistor involved, and you'd almost definitely feel that. And your button might melt.

In short: let's not test that, no.

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#14
Slightly O.T. here. [offtopic]

It is common knowledge that the amount of pressure on the brake pedal will determine if the ISG initiates or not. On my GT2, a light pedal pressure, just enough to keep the car from moving on all but a steep grade, is sufficient to prevent the ISG from activating. Fortunately for me, light brake pedal pressure is my habit, and my ISG seldom initiates when I forget to press the console button. I haven't crawled under the dash to count the switches or contacts on the brake pedal switch, but it seems reasonable that the brake lights and the ISG are on different switches, if not on different positions of the same switch. If the switches are different, it would be possible to re-adjust the ISG sensor switch so it would not activate the ISG under normal brake pedal pressure at stop lights. Just an idea ....
 
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Thread Starter #15
Slightly O.T. here. [offtopic]

It is common knowledge that the amount of pressure on the brake pedal will determine if the ISG initiates or not. On my GT2, a light pedal pressure, just enough to keep the car from moving on all but a steep grade, is sufficient to prevent the ISG from activating. Fortunately for me, light brake pedal pressure is my habit, and my ISG seldom initiates when I forget to press the console button. I haven't crawled under the dash to count the switches or contacts on the brake pedal switch, but it seems reasonable that the brake lights and the ISG are on different switches, if not on different positions of the same switch. If the switches are different, it would be possible to re-adjust the ISG sensor switch so it would not activate the ISG under normal brake pedal pressure at stop lights. Just an idea ....
Love the ideas. I doubt very much that there are adjustable switches, but it's definitely a good place to look and test--if it's reasonably accessible--to see if the switch that triggers the ISG can be bypassed entirely.
Most likely this would consist of accessing the harness and figuring out what's happening there on which pins at what pressure, and defeating it accordingly.

Other common methods on other cars:

Jeeps have a voltage sensor that actually connects right at the battery. Disconnect this, and the system won't "risk it" to cut the engine, not knowing if it has enough voltage to restart. The Stinger definitely restarts based on voltage drop as well (it's documented), but I haven't checked yet whether there's an easily accessible sensor just for this.

Trucks have trailer harnesses that you can buy a cheap tester from Wal Mart to plug in that will defeat it (as the systems don't work when a trailer is attached).

Basically any of the conditions we know about (temperature of the cabin, voltage, clutch pushed, brake pushed, button pushed, etc.) that can be gamed or lied to would get the job done.

I'm all about the possible solution with the switch itself on the brake, but would request the following 2 things:

1. PLEASE don't disconnect any switches or harnesses or anything from the brakes without confirming that you're retaining normal operation AND BRAKE LIGHT operation. This isn't worth risking your life over!

2. While there may be a good switching/electronic point down there to consider for hacking this system, let's please keep the discussion in this thread AWAY from criticizing the way people drive/brake/etc. This thread isn't about how people drive, it's for people who want to disable a system that was not made for consumers. Yes, we know there is a way to operate the brake that can keep the system from working, and I'm sure we've all experimented with it. But as you said, that's common knowlefge, and has been discussed at length elsewhere. Let's keep the focus in this thread simple and narrow: This is about the system itself, not the driver of the car.
 
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#16
In this, latest redesign, we have moved away from the fibres of cellulose pulp composite and used a 'space-age' thermoplastic polytetrafluoroethylene. This material is both durable and beautiful and comes with the standard ***DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB*** no warranty, no guarantee. The kit is available for $299.00 The kit comes complete with 2 1" lengths of this 'space-age' material. Installation is a snap, but local installation is available for the price of 1st class airfare and Uber SUV to your location and an $899.00 installation fee. Checks can be made payable to each of the original designer of this solution (DesignDawg) and yours truly. Same amounts are fine.
untitled2.jpg
NOTICE: There has been a rumor floating around that all we are peddling is 2 1" lengths of heat shrink (unheated), just slipped in between the ISG and the switch housing. I can assure you that the kit comes with much more than that: The valuable lesson on how really great ideas (thank you DesignDawg) are sometimes the simplest.
untitled.jpg
 

stomms

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#17
It really works :)


2019-04-19 12-25-29.jpg
 

stomms

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#19
Another version :)

2019-04-19 18-28-03.JPG
 
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#20
Slightly O.T. here. [offtopic]

It is common knowledge that the amount of pressure on the brake pedal will determine if the ISG initiates or not. On my GT2, a light pedal pressure, just enough to keep the car from moving on all but a steep grade, is sufficient to prevent the ISG from activating. Fortunately for me, light brake pedal pressure is my habit, and my ISG seldom initiates when I forget to press the console button. I haven't crawled under the dash to count the switches or contacts on the brake pedal switch, but it seems reasonable that the brake lights and the ISG are on different switches, if not on different positions of the same switch. If the switches are different, it would be possible to re-adjust the ISG sensor switch so it would not activate the ISG under normal brake pedal pressure at stop lights. Just an idea ....
I'm pretty happy with the brake pressure solution. If it's a long light and I know it I just hit the brake harder and let the engine shut off. There are some real long ones on my way to work
 

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