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2018 Audi A5 Sportback vs. 2018 BMW 430i xDrive Gran Coupe, 2018 Kia Stinger AWD - Comparison Tests

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#1

In this cuckoo-crazy, mixed-up world, nothing is certain and the set order is up for renegotiation. For decades, the four-door sedan was the sensible choice, the vehicle that sober, serious grown-up types bought to show just how sober and serious they really were. But crossovers have toppled the establishment, and now four-doors are struggling to retain relevance. So squash the roofs, pack in the tech, add a practical hatch for the camping equipment, and voila-the sedan is king again. Only now they're four-door coupes. Got it?

The quasi-coupes under examination today are Audi's A5 Sportback and BMW's 430i xDrive Gran Coupe, with the Kia Stinger here to do its own renegotiating of the set order. The Audi and BMW lead with, and are enabled by, their heritage. They're tweaked expressions of long-established brand identities. Kia is relatively new to the premium realm and has yet to produce a hit there. The Stinger could be it.

So here are three more or less medium-size hatchbacks, all equipped with longitudinally mounted turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder engines, each making about 250 horsepower, that feed automatic transmissions with at least seven forward gears. They all have all-wheel drive: The BMW and the Kia are otherwise laid out as conventional rear-drivers, and the Audi, as is its wont, has its engine hung out ahead of the front wheels.

There are no high-performance pretensions here. The turbo four-pots are base engines in these models. Above them, the S5 Sportback, 440i Gran Coupe, and Stinger GT all feature turbocharged sixes making over 300 horsepower. But the fun stops at that level. There is currently no RS5 Sportback, M4 Gran Coupe, or V-8?powered Stinger. Pity.

There's leather on the seats and wrapping the steering wheels. We've got some room on our credit cards and Southern California is in flames. So let's slalom around the infernos and rack up some Marriott Rewards points in sensational Bakersfield and luxurious Lancaster.

Kia's Stinger is the brawler of the group. With its thick shoulders, blunt nose, and muscular stance, it's all pugnacious attitude. But in this octagon of ultimate fighting, it plays Conor McGregor against old Floyd Mayweather and another, younger Floyd Mayweather. Like McGregor, it competes better than expected and fights for less money.

The Stinger is the largest car here. Its 114.4-inch wheelbase outstretches the Audi's by 3.2 inches and the BMW's by 3.8. It's also longer overall and wider, with wider wheel tracks. Surprisingly, it weighs in seven pounds lighter than the BMW, even if it's up 127 on the Audi.

In general layout, the Stinger's suspension is similar to the BMW's, with struts in front and a multilink system in back. The base Stinger's suspension tuning is straightforward, well considered, and not plagued by the indecision found in the Stinger GT's electronically controlled dampers. And the electrically assisted rack-and-pinion steering reports to the driver with more linear predictability than the BMW. But its 225/45R-18 all-season Bridgestones have lower limits than the Audi's wider, summer-only unfair-advantage-spec treads, and so the Stinger doesn't have that car's lightning turn-in and it noses into understeer earlier. That's reflected in the slalom performance where the Stinger slid through at 43.9 mph-behind the Audi by 1 mph but ahead of the BMW by 0.3 mph. While the ride is comfortable and the car lopes along the highway unperturbed at 90 mph, the trip is accompanied by a bit of tire roar, which can become annoying on extended drives.

Rated at 255 horsepower with a consistent 260 pound-feet of torque between 1400 and 4000 rpm, the Stinger's engine reveals some noticeable Optima SX Turbo grind. And the eight-speed torque-converter automatic is lazy. There's some frolic to be found using the paddle shifters in the lower five gears, but the top three are all cruising overdrives. The modest, third-place 6.1-second zero-to-60 time reflects the transmission's lack of urgency rather than a power deficit.

There's a muscle-car-throwback vibe to the Stinger's interior, from the 1969 Mustang-like T-handle shifter to the hurricane airflow from the three massive eyeball vents at the dash's center. There's also a lack of rearward visibility that's pure '69 Mach 1. The front seats are less supportive than the Germans', but the Uber-friendly rear seat is the roomiest of the bunch, with the best cargo room behind it. However, this is the one car that, as equipped, lacks a power-closing rear hatch.

This is also the only car here that uses a touchscreen infotainment system, and it's a seven-incher that the driver needs to stretch to reach. Honda and Volvo do screens better, but the Stinger's is at least more straightforward than the input devices that BMW has devised-if not as sophisticated.

Kia is reaching with the Stinger in general, and some of the effort shows. It's a bit overdecorated on the outside, a touch stark on the inside, and the whole car feels a quarter-turn of the nut looser than its competitors. But its $37,000 test price is a spectacular $14,050 below that of the Audi and $16,885 below the BMW's. That's a more than 25 percent discount for a prestige-free Kia that competes ably with two of the luxury market's acknowledged standard-bearers. A Kia that ties with a BMW-that's dogs and cats sleeping together.






Read more on Car and Driver.
 

Robs

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#2
Why couldn?t they just retest the Audi on all season tyres. Pretty lame just switching drivers for the retest if you ask me, seems like C&D are afraid the pecking order might not turn out they way they wanted.
 
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#3
That would be - possibly - correct. It's called Car & Audi for a reason you know. ; )
 

Robs

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#5
Realities today are such that car differences, in many instances, are down to splitting hairs. Once upon a time, when the main choices in the automotive world were compact, mid-side or truck (with a few variants beyond of course), BMW, Audi and Mercedes were focused on luxury, power and performance. And if you moved from a non-luxury brand vehicle to a luxury brand, there was a stark difference.

But a funny thing happened along the way in competition-land. While Luxury Brands were tweaking and refining, the mainstream brands were busy fragmenting the market. Creating Mini-Vans, SUV's (Chrysler, Ford - thank you). The battle for sales volumes in a fragmented market became absolutely fierce, and as a result, quality and technology rose at a rapid rate.

Today? If you sat in a Mazda 6 it would be splitting hairs between it and a BMW interior. Styling is different if not subjective and quality is hardly a stronghold of the Germans.

High-end main-stream sedans are butting heads with entry-level luxury vehicles. It's a great time, and yet a scary time for luxury brands, as Buick, Kia, Genesis, and others bring forth cars that give little need to move north into a highly priced luxury label.

There will always be a market for those that want the badge of a luxury brand, or those that are sport enthusiasts that will get into an M-series BMW.

Yet there are the Honda Accord's of the world which rival quasi-luxury vehicles technologies and abilities... which does beg the question as to why Acura even has a TLX (beyond the corporation showcasing they can design the same car twice, both with equally great features and bad styling queues. Quite a feat...).

I've seen or read just about every review under the sun regarding the Stinger. I've seen some pick on some nutty things on the interior, but I've never seen a review pick on Audi's S5 not being able to release the truck while the car is on (seriously...), or that it's a really cramped vehicle all around. Driver, passenger and certainly the back seats.

Labels are going to me less and less moving forward, and Germans are going to have to figure out how to play in the new game of performance and luxury, at a reasonable price. Way to take the fight to Ingolstadt Kia! Go Stinger!
 
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#6
Why couldn?t they just retest the Audi on all season tyres. Pretty lame just switching drivers for the retest if you ask me, seems like C&D are afraid the pecking order might not turn out they way they wanted.
They did and it's noted in the magazine printed article. Did drop Audi by a few points but still came in first place against BMW and Kia.

For performance either Audi is sandbagging the engine power or the DCT is that good. Apparently Kia's thorn is the sloppy shifting 8 spd.
 

Robs

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They did and it's noted in the magazine printed article. Did drop Audi by a few points but still came in first place against BMW and Kia.

For performance either Audi is sandbagging the engine power or the DCT is that good. Apparently Kia's thorn is the sloppy shifting 8 spd.
Re-read the retest portion, my bad!
 
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#8
For performance either Audi is sandbagging the engine power or the DCT is that good. Apparently Kia's thorn is the sloppy shifting 8 spd.
If you follow automotive magazines (I haven't much for years, not being in the new car market until recently) you get to know reviewers and their biases and fetishes. Not all reviewers complained about the Kia 8-speed and several were suitable impressed with its efficiency. It is a torque converter based transmission, not a dual clutch, so shifts will be fundamentally different. The current move is away from dual clutch for many automakers. Also remember that Kia is responsible for 10/100,000 power train warranty which is a consideration, and very gutsy and confident to put that on the Stinger.
 
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#9
If you follow automotive magazines (I haven't much for years, not being in the new car market until recently) you get to know reviewers and their biases and fetishes. Not all reviewers complained about the Kia 8-speed and several were suitable impressed with its efficiency. It is a torque converter based transmission, not a dual clutch, so shifts will be fundamentally different. The current move is away from dual clutch for many automakers. Also remember that Kia is responsible for 10/100,000 power train warranty which is a consideration, and very gutsy and confident to put that on the Stinger.
Speaking of the Kia warranty, probably a topic for elsewhere in the blog, but while I'm here... I've heard if you change you own oil, and do you own maintenance, keep great records and record what levels of product you use - and make SURE they meet Kia's required standards or that warranty is toast. Even some sales guys at the dealers have hesitated when I ask about this and they've said "Well, you just need to do a good job I think..." Uh, yah.
 

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Speaking of the Kia warranty, probably a topic for elsewhere in the blog, but while I'm here... I've heard if you change you own oil, and do you own maintenance, keep great records and record what levels of product you use - and make SURE they meet Kia's required standards or that warranty is toast. Even some sales guys at the dealers have hesitated when I ask about this and they've said "Well, you just need to do a good job I think..." Uh, yah.
Here are the facts; keep records. The Warranty and Maintenance manual has a log to track your oil changes on page 34. I show it to every customer that may do their own service. Just jot it down with the date, miles, and a signature. I also recommend keeping a ziplock back in the glove box and you can throw your receipts right in there when you buy oil and filters.

Also, an insurance policy would be to buy FACTORY oil filters instead of after market. That will make them very happy. :)
 
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#11
Here are the facts; keep records. The Warranty and Maintenance manual has a log to track your oil changes on page 34. I show it to every customer that may do their own service. Just jot it down with the date, miles, and a signature. I also recommend keeping a ziplock back in the glove box and you can throw your receipts right in there when you buy oil and filters.

Also, an insurance policy would be to buy FACTORY oil filters instead of after market. That will make them very happy. :)
Thanks [MENTION=291]MurlinatoR[/MENTION]R! That is one area that makes me hesitant on the 10yr/100k warranty, is the requirements. Must I buy the factory filter or just meet the specs outlined in the manual? And are the specs outlined in the manual or no? Gray areas scare me. Yes, it will make them happy but must I do it to keep my warranty valid or no? I like black and white with warranties, because I'm quite sure when it comes to a town head gasket, if I didn't follow the letter of the warranty, it's on me really quickly...

Quick unrelated leasing question for ya: Is the Depreciated cost 54% (etc...) rate flexible, or is that set in stone by Kia Financial? If rigid, can the dealer work with Kia Financial to change that figure for the customer? Same with the Money Factor - is that set in stone? I get some people saying the stuff is flexible, others say it is not... Hmmmm...

Thanks in advance!
 

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Thanks [MENTION=291]MurlinatoR[/MENTION]R! That is one area that makes me hesitant on the 10yr/100k warranty, is the requirements. Must I buy the factory filter or just meet the specs outlined in the manual? And are the specs outlined in the manual or no? Gray areas scare me. Yes, it will make them happy but must I do it to keep my warranty valid or no? I like black and white with warranties, because I'm quite sure when it comes to a town head gasket, if I didn't follow the letter of the warranty, it's on me really quickly...

Quick unrelated leasing question for ya: Is the Depreciated cost 54% (etc...) rate flexible, or is that set in stone by Kia Financial? If rigid, can the dealer work with Kia Financial to change that figure for the customer? Same with the Money Factor - is that set in stone? I get some people saying the stuff is flexible, others say it is not... Hmmmm...

Thanks in advance!
So, the reality is that Kia's warranty is NO DIFFERENT than any other companies warranty other than the length. Honda, Toyota, Mazda, or Chevy will ALL require you to keep service records if you maintain it yourself. Of course every manufacturer wants your service business but as long as you do your fluid changes, flushes, and stuff under record, you'll be just fine. The reality is that you're very unlikely to have any major engine problems.

Kia bench tests random motors off of the assembly line under FULL load at REDLINE for.... a THOUSAND hours continuously. It's incredible. LOL

Now for the lease question. Any program that is offered directly from the factory is pretty set. So, for the residual %. It cannot be raised. It can, however, be lowered by adding miles into the lease. What's actually happening is that you are simply paying for more of the car in the lease term. The math is easy. You will ALWAYS pay for 100% of the MSRP BEFORE the rebates and discounts. The key is that your lease contract ONLY holds you obligated to the % built into the lease. So, if the lease has a normal 60% residual, you are only paying for 40% of MSRP minus rebates minus discounts minus cash or trade equity plus state and lease fees. You cannot RAISE that % but you can pay for MORE of the car in your lease by LOWERING that %. Your lease responsibility goes UP and your residual goes DOWN. Does that make sense???

For the money factor, that is also set. There is a .0004 mark up allowed by Kia for the dealer to capture a little profit on the finance side as most lease customers do not purchase extended warranties or other finance products. It's a little less than 1% and usually equates to a few hundred dollars for the dealer.

I hope that I'm not making anything sloppy to understand for anyone. LOL
 
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#13
So, the reality is that Kia's warranty is NO DIFFERENT than any other companies warranty other than the length. Honda, Toyota, Mazda, or Chevy will ALL require you to keep service records if you maintain it yourself. Of course every manufacturer wants your service business but as long as you do your fluid changes, flushes, and stuff under record, you'll be just fine. The reality is that you're very unlikely to have any major engine problems.

Kia bench tests random motors off of the assembly line under FULL load at REDLINE for.... a THOUSAND hours continuously. It's incredible. LOL

Now for the lease question. Any program that is offered directly from the factory is pretty set. So, for the residual %. It cannot be raised. It can, however, be lowered by adding miles into the lease. What's actually happening is that you are simply paying for more of the car in the lease term. The math is easy. You will ALWAYS pay for 100% of the MSRP BEFORE the rebates and discounts. The key is that your lease contract ONLY holds you obligated to the % built into the lease. So, if the lease has a normal 60% residual, you are only paying for 40% of MSRP minus rebates minus discounts minus cash or trade equity plus state and lease fees. You cannot RAISE that % but you can pay for MORE of the car in your lease by LOWERING that %. Your lease responsibility goes UP and your residual goes DOWN. Does that make sense???

For the money factor, that is also set. There is a .0004 mark up allowed by Kia for the dealer to capture a little profit on the finance side as most lease customers do not purchase extended warranties or other finance products. It's a little less than 1% and usually equates to a few hundred dollars for the dealer.

I hope that I'm not making anything sloppy to understand for anyone. LOL
Thanks MurlinatorR, you were very clear - thank you. I never, ever, considered a lease until two weeks ago, I when I started figuring math with the Lease Cash, and if it made sense to lease/purchase same day?

Alas, all the interest pretty much chews up the lease cash. Add it all up, and leasing, and then buying the Residual (need to get a loan for that), makes buying a GT Stinger pretty much an MSRP exercise. I now understand the Capital Cost, Money Factor, Residual, how it all works.

Now, as we move forward, if the lease cash on a GT moves from $4800 to something more aggressive, and the 54% residual comes down, coupled with a better finance rate (doubtful that ever changes much as that is where the bank wins), then I might be able to revist this. We'll see...

QUESTION: Are rebates ever allowed to be combined with lease programs? I assume not, but wanted to ask. Thanks.
 

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Thanks MurlinatorR, you were very clear - thank you. I never, ever, considered a lease until two weeks ago, I when I started figuring math with the Lease Cash, and if it made sense to lease/purchase same day?

Alas, all the interest pretty much chews up the lease cash. Add it all up, and leasing, and then buying the Residual (need to get a loan for that), makes buying a GT Stinger pretty much an MSRP exercise. I now understand the Capital Cost, Money Factor, Residual, how it all works.

Now, as we move forward, if the lease cash on a GT moves from $4800 to something more aggressive, and the 54% residual comes down, coupled with a better finance rate (doubtful that ever changes much as that is where the bank wins), then I might be able to revist this. We'll see...

QUESTION: Are rebates ever allowed to be combined with lease programs? I assume not, but wanted to ask. Thanks.
No, rebates and lease cash will always be separate.

Sometimes the deal can be better to lease and then buy it out.

The hidden secret is that, just like any other loan, the "interest" in a lease is NOT charged if you buy the lease out early. Loans cannot charge you upfront, only if you take the term to pay it.

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#15
No, rebates and lease cash will always be separate.

Sometimes the deal can be better to lease and then buy it out.

The hidden secret is that, just like any other loan, the "interest" in a lease is NOT charged if you buy the lease out early. Loans cannot charge you upfront, only if you take the term to pay it.

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MurlinatoR ? I had NEVER thought about a lease in these terms! Just like my Mortage payoff, or 60 month car loans I have paid off in 2 years, indeed, banks cannot charge interest if paying extra on the Principal.

I'm going to need to rebuild my spreadsheet formula! This should be SOOOO helpful for people to learn. Suddenly Lease Cash can turn into effective rebate money. Technically no, but you get what I'm saying - it can be leveraged for a purchase.

LAST QUESTION (maybe... ha!): What are the fees and/or charges in buying out a least same day? $300, $600, zero?...

Thank you!
 

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MurlinatoR ? I had NEVER thought about a lease in these terms! Just like my Mortage payoff, or 60 month car loans I have paid off in 2 years, indeed, banks cannot charge interest if paying extra on the Principal.

I'm going to need to rebuild my spreadsheet formula! This should be SOOOO helpful for people to learn. Suddenly Lease Cash can turn into effective rebate money. Technically no, but you get what I'm saying - it can be leveraged for a purchase.

LAST QUESTION (maybe... ha!): What are the fees and/or charges in buying out a least same day? $300, $600, zero?...

Thank you!
[MENTION=477]MarkyMark[/MENTION], no one has. No one calculates the math for customers. No one tells customers. They are all greedy and want the customers to release at the end! Sales, sales, sales! I tell every single customer about this option if they'll let me. Many are very skeptical because they heard leases are bad. LOL

There is a $300 purchase fee at buy out. You also have to pay the balance of the sales tax when you purchase the residual.

But, here's the truth. I'm on "the inside" and I am probably going to lease it and then refinance it the next month before the gov't raises rates anymore.

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#17
They did and it's noted in the magazine printed article. Did drop Audi by a few points but still came in first place against BMW and Kia.

For performance either Audi is sandbagging the engine power or the DCT is that good. Apparently Kia's thorn is the sloppy shifting 8 spd.
In case anyone is interested in reading the updated test results with Audi A5 Sportback on all-season rubber that was added to the end of the print article:

RE-TIRED, RETESTED.
Sinister conspiracy mongering is fun, but all we know for sure is that the Audi A5 Sportback used for this comparison showed up on Pirelli Cinturato P7 summer tires while the BMW and Kia competition wore the requested all-season compromise rubber. So 10 days after initial testing, C/D retested the same A5 Sportback on Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season tires in the same 245/40R-18 size at the same venue but with a different driver. Senior editor Tony Quiroga stepped in for assistant technical editor David Beard.

Scoring for this comparison is based on the original testing with the Audi on summer tires, but we wanted to confirm that a tire with less grip wouldn?t change the finishing order. We repeated our braking and skidpad tests on the all-seasons but skipped the slalom, which is the most driver- variable and least repeatable.

Despite the similarity in names, there are significant differences in performance between the all-season and summer Cinturato P7 tires. In our follow-up test, skidpad grip dropped from 0.93 to 0.89 g, and braking grew from 164 to 189 feet. If those new numbers were used in the scoring, the Audi would lose a point and the BMW and Kia would gain three. So the margin of victory for the A5 drops from a dominating 23 points to a merely overwhelming 19. ?JPH
 
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#18
[MENTION=477]MarkyMark[/MENTION], no one has. No one calculates the math for customers. No one tells customers. They are all greedy and want the customers to release at the end! Sales, sales, sales! I tell every single customer about this option if they'll let me. Many are very skeptical because they heard leases are bad. LOL

There is a $300 purchase fee at buy out. You also have to pay the balance of the sales tax when you purchase the residual.

But, here's the truth. I'm on "the inside" and I am probably going to lease it and then refinance it the next month before the gov't raises rates anymore.

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[MENTION=291]MurlinatoR[/MENTION]R, who is the bank I'll see on statements, that is actually behind Kia Financial Services? Citi, Bank of America, etc...?
 

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[MENTION=291]MurlinatoR[/MENTION]R, who is the bank I'll see on statements, that is actually behind Kia Financial Services? Citi, Bank of America, etc...?
Kia Motor Finance USA/Hyundai Lease Titling Trust

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Kia Motor Finance USA/Hyundai Lease Titling Trust

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Kia has their own finance arm.

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